Torvalds pans Apple with 'utter crap' putdown

[hmimthiaz]

I came across this article felt like sharing with you all

Torvalds pans Apple with 'utter crap' putdown - Technology - smh.com.au

[ultrablue662]

"I don't think they're equally flawed - I think Leopard is a much better system,"

I agree though. OS X is flawed. but then again so is Linux.

Windoze CLAIMS to be user friendly but is an utter disgrace to of an OS.

I think OS X is a middle ground. Stable and user friendly. and it's GUI is the best in my opinion.

Linus is getting a bit militant in his old age, huh?

[hmimthiaz]

What I feel is he wants to attract the audience with that kind of statement. Again the OS X not only good in its gui but also a smart OS.

[dandantheitman]

The Apple file system does have some very ugly flaws, and is plagued with some of the same issues that FAT16 was plagued with. HFS has a file size limit of: 65,535 files. The File System also has performance issues - when it comes to multi tasking. as only one application can write to the file system at a time, so performance slows as many save instructions are cued. I am looking forward to a stable and "apple blessed" port of Sun's ZFS. IF I could get native support on the drive I am booting from I would change in a heart beat.

I would have liked to have had Linus explain why the OSX platform is harder to develop for ? As far as I am concerned it is just as easy to develop on as Linux.

Linus has a "teflon coating" when it comes to mud slinging. Linux refers to the Kernel and not the OS as a whole. So if your linux file system is crap and needs to be re-written from scratch, which is what is being done with the Reiser FS then you can't blame Linus. As he is only responsible for maintaining the Kernel.

Dan

[fangpyre]

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

I am looking forward to a stable and "apple blessed" port of Sun's ZFS.

There was speculation that Leopard would have that.
Or at least proper access to said system.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

Linus has a "teflon coating" when it comes to mud slinging. Linux refers to the Kernel and not the OS as a whole. So if your linux file system is crap and needs to be re-written from scratch, which is what is being done with the Reiser FS then you can't blame Linus. As he is only responsible for maintaining the Kernel.

That may not mean Linus is to blame, but it doesn't mean Linux is ok.

To be honest, I haven't followed up on Linux ever since I moved to OSX.
It is the reason I switched to OSX, though.
I wanted to learn Linux/Unix better since I had just installed Linux on my XBox.
Of course, I never got around to doing that.

I'm kinda disappointed with the whole Linux experience.
It is very strong, but I had higher hopes for such an open platform.
Instead we ended up with so many variations we need a computer just to maintain the names!

[dandantheitman]

Originally Posted by fangpyre

There was speculation that Leopard would have that.
Or at least proper access to said system.

That may not mean Linus is to blame, but it doesn't mean Linux is ok.

To be honest, I haven't followed up on Linux ever since I moved to OSX.
It is the reason I switched to OSX, though.
I wanted to learn Linux/Unix better since I had just installed Linux on my XBox.
Of course, I never got around to doing that.

Hey Fangpyre,

There is a port of ZFS to apple, although currently you cannot run it as a boot able file system - Apple insider ran an article last October about it being a viable option for OSX 10.6.

I really see no problem with there being hundreds of variations on an Open Source platform. It is there to be customized. There is a Linux Standards Base (LSB) which you can or cannot adhere to when rolling your own distribution. So that your software libraries and config files are located in the same location as other distributions.

Why did you never get around to installing Linux on your XBox ? Or did you ? You switched to OSX because of Linux ? How come ?

Dan

[fangpyre]

Dan,
I know about the ZFS porting, but for me I'd prefer to get an Apple porting for something like this.
Plus, I prefer keeping one partition.

I had higher hopes for the open source community when it first started. I know there are many success stories. My biggest example of a success is XBMC (XBox Media Center) which surpasses any media player on any platform. This is what I was expecting from open source community for every category (or at least a lot more than now).

My problem with Linux is that there is no porting that is perfect (and few that are good).
Now every porting of Linux "thinks" it is better than the other one instead of getting together and making a better unified one. They could have easily surpassed Windows, maybe even OSX.
A few variations that get it right is better than so many that don't amount to much.
Linux is almost non-existent on a client level, and has few proper implementations on the server side.


XBox:
I did install it. and used it a little.
But I wanted to expand on the Linux experience.
So I got a laptop that runs Unix, a PowerBook.
Needless to say, I didn't do much down that road.

[dandantheitman]

Originally Posted by fangpyre

Dan,
I know about the ZFS porting, but for me I'd prefer to get an Apple porting for something like this.
Plus, I prefer keeping one partition.

Agreed hence my first post in which I said that I am waiting for an apple blessed and supported port. Last thing I want is a crap port, there is nothing worse than a shitty file System.

Originally Posted by fangpyre

I had higher hopes for the open source community when it first started. I know there are many success stories. My biggest example of a success is XBMC (XBox Media Center) which surpasses any media player on any platform. This is what I was expecting from open source community for every category (or at least a lot more than now).

The biggest problem with Media and open source is that media formats tend to be proprietary. DRM plays a big deal in that people (corporate entities) do not want people hacking DRM protected media formats because that leads to illegally distributed music.

Originally Posted by fangpyre

My problem with Linux is that there is no porting that is perfect (and few that are good). Now every porting of Linux "thinks" it is better than the other one instead of getting together and making a better unified one. They could have easily surpassed Windows, maybe even OSX.

When you say Port do you mean distribution ? In which case each linux distro does not think it is better. Each linux distro tends to have its own strengths and weaknesses each distro relies heavily on its strengths especially when you compare them at a server level where they are vying for domination using the space application: apache, Samba, IMAP, MySql.

Linux is about freedom of choice not being better or worse than any other desktop.

Originally Posted by fangpyre

<snip> Linux is almost non-existent on a client level, and has few proper implementations on the server side.

Linux implementations depending on whose report you choose to read tend to be equal to, greater than or less than OSX implementations - So arguing percentages of the desktop market is a mute point. Many people buys PCS but run linux, many (like Linus) buy apple mac but run Linux. I know a couple of hardcore gamers that bought apple and run windows.

I personally run Linux at the office and have done for years. It is not as far as I am concerned ready to be used as a desktop OS by the general public. Nor do I see anytime soon when it will be a viable contender as a standard desktop. It is just too quirky.

Linux Server implementations - wow there are loads, and you are right there are a lot that are done badly. It is this that normally leads to misplaced beliefs that Linux is a poor operating systems and only for geeks.

Originally Posted by fangpyre

XBox:
I did install it. and used it a little.
But I wanted to expand on the Linux experience.
So I got a laptop that runs Unix, a PowerBook.
Needless to say, I didn't do much down that road.

Its a shame that your linux experience was less than favourable, but given what you were trying to achieve I can see why.

I hope that someday you decide to try it again.

Dan

[fangpyre]

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

Agreed hence my first post in which I said that I am waiting for an apple blessed and supported port. Last thing I want is a crap port, there is nothing worse than a shitty file System.

Agreed. I can understand going open, but a half way stance when it comes to data.
No Thanks.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

The biggest problem with Media and open source is that media formats tend to be proprietary. DRM plays a big deal in that people (corporate entities) do not want people hacking DRM protected media formats because that leads to illegally distributed music.

Another hurdle that XBMC overcame. BTW, XBMC is being ported onto other systems.
I tried the Mac version, and it still needs work, but it is solid.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

When you say Port do you mean distribution ? In which case each linux distro does not think it is better. Each linux distro tends to have its own strengths and weaknesses each distro relies heavily on its strengths especially when you compare them at a server level where they are vying for domination using the space application: apache, Samba, IMAP, MySql.

Yes, I mean distros, my bad. To be honest, I had forgotten about the applications you mention. Which themselves are amazing success stories of the OSC. But just looking at the list of distros is confusing.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

Linux is about freedom of choice not being better or worse than any other desktop.

That raises a question of which is better, would a "forced" OS that is better or a chosen OS that is not so? (I don't mean Linux here).
But, they need to take a page from the Apple playbook, simplicity.
Just choosing the right Linux distro needs strong technical experience.
Let alone running it.
Windows has managed so well commercially with only 2 OSes that are essentially the same. Unix has more variations, yet nothing compared to the many Linux variations, and yet has established itself as the "best".

So I don't think we need more variety, we need more focused efforts that attack the many issues at hand. Instead, there is bickering and spin offs that are taking focus away from that.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

Linux implementations depending on whose report you choose to read tend to be equal to, greater than or less than OSX implementations - So arguing percentages of the desktop market is a mute point. Many people buys PCS but run linux, many (like Linus) buy apple mac but run Linux. I know a couple of hardcore gamers that bought apple and run windows.

I know and agree with those numbers. But they are, for the most part, restricted to the technical community. Some even consider anyone that "Linux is for hackers". I don't know why.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

I personally run Linux at the office and have done for years. It is not as far as I am concerned ready to be used as a desktop OS by the general public. Nor do I see anytime soon when it will be a viable contender as a standard desktop. It is just too quirky.

I would like to thank you for your objectivity here. And this is exactly my point.

Originally Posted by dandantheitman

Linux Server implementations - wow there are loads, and you are right there are a lot that are done badly. It is this that normally leads to misplaced beliefs that Linux is a poor operating systems and only for geeks.

Its a shame that your linux experience was less than favourable, but given what you were trying to achieve I can see why.

I hope that someday you decide to try it again.

I know there are many, and definitely more than those for OSX Server.
But in a non IT corporate environment, i.e. pitching it to non tech savvy managers, are few, despite the cost saving.

It is my high expectations of the OS that has disappointed.
It simply can be much more, but instead has carved a niche market and snugged into it.
I don't understand how a "pro-choice OS" (if you may) with such a devote following be less than the bastard child of Greed and Gluttony?
Linux should have been the frontrunner slamming the touch downs, but instead it has chosen to take to the sidelines.

I never estimate the power of the mighty dollar, its just disappointing to see the way this played out.

On an end note, I'm not disappointed with Linux from a technical standpoint.
On the contrary, it made me delve more into the Unix (though not much progress on my side was made) through the Mac.

On an end note, thanks for the intellectual conversation.
Usually I talk to myself to do that.

[dandantheitman]

Originally Posted by fangpyre

On an end note, I'm not disappointed with Linux from a technical standpoint.
On the contrary, it made me delve more into the Unix (though not much progress on my side was made) through the Mac.

On an end note, thanks for the intellectual conversation.
Usually I talk to myself to do that.

I always enjoy great conversation. I bought my first mac because my employer at the time (SuSE / Novell) had released openSuSE for the PowerPC. I thought Great - Solid OS great Hardware - good to go.

I ordered my top of the line 15" PowerBook, and it arrived. Then whilst waiting for torrent to complete the OS download I figured I would give the OS a run and see what it looked like, as I hadn't used an apple OS since 7.x

I liked the feel, did some googling found out Apple was essentially BSD (which pleased me greatly ) then did some more digging: found terminal, which I quickly replace with a tabbed terminal application: iterminal, replaced my web browser with FireFox, installed thunderbird, then open office and moved to Neo Office. Next thing I knew I was using OSX - Done. My torrent for openSuSE PPC downloaded but I never quite got around to installing it. Some of my security tools wouldn't compile on the PPC platform so I found myself lugging around 2 laptops. Intel chips arrived, and I rinsed and repeated the same process.

Dan